--> OOC Broken Pattern Confrence Log <--
--> Captured by : Gisben             <--
--> Email : TJR7230@utarlg.uta.edu   <--
[Editor Note : Anything inside square brackets was added by me in editing.]
[Disclaimer : I am very sorry if I have accidentily deleted any questiosn from this file, though I do not think I have. And I do not claim responsibility for any of the spelling, even my own. :) This is a very rough log, but has the advantage that each "say" is it's own line, regardless of length, so that when brought into a major WP like MS Word (Mac, yes I'm biased, shut up. :) it will format nicely. Enjoy, if there is a major problem I will seee about re-editing this file.]

Jasra says "I hadn't really given much thought as to how to structure this meeting. I think I'll go with a very brief overview, and then just do question&answer for the rest."
Jasra says "Broken Pattern *is* classified as a major power, although it's really sort of between a major and a minor power. However, it can ONLY be taught by someone with the advanced level of BP (called an Adept. Basic level is called Initiate)."
Jasra says "Right now, the only Adept level on the mush is me. Hi. :)"
Jasra says "As it's stated in news powers policy, you cannot learn an advanced power until you've had the basic for at least 1 RL month, and then it takes a while until you actually get the advanced power. Almost no one has had basic BP for that long, so don't bother asking me about adept level yet."
Jasra says "I believe we currently have a grand total of 8 people with BP, counting myself, on the mud. This number obviously will be increasing."
Jasra says "You can certainly see (look around) how many people are interested, right? But you all have to go through a BP Adept, me, right?"
Jasra says "Let me digress briefly to describe my RL schedule. I work 40+ hours a week as a supervisor in a tech support department, meaning I frequently get called back into work to deal with things over my 40 hours a week. My current schedule is roughly 10am to 5pm on Mondays and Tuesdays, and 10am-8pm (at least) on Wed Thur & Fridays. This is central time."
Jasra says "This adds up to Not Very Much Time for mudding, much less just logging on to check my mail. This is why I'm hard to find. Thus, this conference, in which I hope to get a lot of the little details out of the way, without having to drag them out through +mail for weeks at a time."
Jasra says "Now, since we have SO many people here, I think it'd be best if I take questions one at a time. If you've got a question, raise your hand. Please, though, don't raise your hand yet if there's already 4 hands raised, cause I can't keep track of that many. And don't interupt, it's hard enough to read all this as is. :)"

Kendall says "Is there any IC way to get BP without Jasra? I'm thinking of the BP that's supposedly in Ungoland."
Jasra says "The BP that's in Ungoland was destroyed, IC."
Kendall says "Aha. Are there any other IC Adepts?"
Jasra says "There IS a way to IC get BP without having to IC know Jasra. I'm not so cruel as to block everyone's way to BP."
Jasra says "That's something we can work out, in fact. There are several other useful BPs other than the one in Kashfa, most run by other cabals of sorcerors. OOC, you still must go through me, and we must agree on all the details. The walk, etc, will be done "off camera", so to speak."
Jasra says "There are *currently* no other PC Adepts. There are no doubt several other NPC Adepts."

Tomaine says "I was thinking of a Ships navagator, He coulden't show up if he diden't alredy have basic BP."
Jasra says "I'm afraid I don't understand the question."
Tomaine says "Will a solid charecter concept be enough to get basic BP powers? i.e. Travel"
Jasra says "Well, no. You're not born with BP."
Jasra says "If you have a good idea as to why your character should get BP, yes. That's how I decide who gets it, in fact."

Shreck says "I was wondering if a tutor was even needed to get the BP, couldn't one just walk it (assuming they had access). I remember a few times in the books where people got Pattern without any coaching (except for a few tips yelled from the sidelines)."
Jasra says "True; I point out that it's not that easy to get Pattern here. :)"
Jasra says "Actually, my rational for requiring a teacher in 99% of cases is this: walking Pattern is hard, but if you've got Amberite blood you'll probably survive it. Walking the BP is a lot harder, because it's flawed, and unpredictable. It can kill you."
Shreck says "um..."
Jasra says "I believe I have in fact let someone walk it IC with no real coaching, aside from what information he dug up in books, but to let that get by, he had to take the extra risk. I'll explain about the risk here in a minute."
Jasra says "The Broken Pattern is flawed. This makes it dangerous, a risk, since any wrong move (or even no wrong move!) could cause the flaw to be triggered."
Shreck says "Ok, but what if one does try...I mean say I snuck to wherever the BP was and just walked it...it would be very dangerous...but that's what we do isn't it, take on really dangerous tasks and live through them...isn't that what differentiates us from the regular folk?"
Jasra says "When walking the BP, if the flaw is triggered, OOC you get sent to a Lost In Shadow room. IC, this means either you simply got tossed far out across Shadow with your head messed up, OR that you died. Poof."
Jasra says "Either way, you don't get a second chance. :)"
Jasra says "But hey, it doesn't cost you any points, and it's good RP potential, if you survive."
Thaddeus says "does stuff effect the chances of triggering the flaw?"
Jasra says "I'm not going to explain the formula behind the chance of triggering the flaw, sorry. That's part of the surprise. :)"

Gideon says "I was wondering if you could start a new char out with BP? If you rationalized it in their background."
Jasra says "IF, and ONLY if you cleared it completely with me first. It's what I call a retro-active BP. Under NO circumstances are you to tell anyone that you have BP, or act like you have BP, until you actually get it. You may not. It's rather like getting an Amberite for a parent."
Gideon says "So if you wrote up a background that had you come in contact with someone who could train you how about that."
Jasra nods at Gideon.

Mia'de says "IF you have TA can you also aquire BP?"
Jasra says "Yes."
Jasra says "Assuming you still have the points available. :)"
Mia'de says "Also, I know one of the BPers that gained it already. This plare's had it for awhile so I was wondering if I could be taught it or coached in a way."
Jasra says "They cannot teach it to you, since they do not have Adept level."
Mia'de says "Hmm, but would that be the IC connection good enough to get me in the door, perse?"
Jasra says "It doesn't matter *how* many people you know with BP, if they don't have Adept level. IC, it would probably help to glean any information they have, but it's still not enough to teach you the power."
Jasra says "Yes; I don't commonly stick out signposts announcing what BP is to the masses. Note that almost none of the Amberites even knew that BP existed in the books. :)"

Roxann says "You mentioned earlier the Pattern, now is the only way to achieve pattern is through your bloodline?"
Jasra says "You must have amberite blood to be able to walk Amber's Pattern, yes. There is no such requirement for Broken Pattern."
Roxann adds, "So if you are not of royal bood you would need broken pattern to walk the shadows?
Jasra says "Yes. Or Logrus, or Advanced Shape Shifting, or.... :)"
Jasra says "If you get a parent, etc, Roxann. Read all the news on pattern - that's not my field. :)"

Theron says "I've paged Corwin about this, and he hasn't found anything, yet. Does Amber have a sea route to Kashfa, and can you buy transport there?"
Jasra says "Probably, yes. I havn't asked Luke about it, but I'd be surprised if Kashfa didn't have a port somewhere."
Gisben notes that it is aa current project to BUILD it but I have OOC assurances that it should exist off screen, just not who can access it, thats up for debate.

Salia says "It does, my question was was about needing training if I have already traversed the Logrus, I know I don't get anything from it, it's part of my char's theme though."
Jasra says "You would gain nothing."
Jasra says "Aside from death, possibly. There's always that chance."
Salia says "I know, I was asking would I need training for it or could I do it without since I had walked the Logrus."
Jasra says "Frankly, no one would train you. You'd be insane to try it, since the chances of it screwing up your head are much greater."
Jasra says "If you really want to RP that, with the full knowledge that you *cannot* have the power, we can talk about it later."
Salia says "Okay, thanks, I'll have to try before I walk it."

Kendric says "I was wondering, under adept powers, listed in Shadow Knights, is the ability to use Broken Pattern Tendrils to cross shadow like Logrus tendrils, but insubstantial, to use sorcery through."
Kendall says "I though BP Tendrils didn't cross Shadow?"
Jasra says "Not across Shadow, no. In a shadow, yes."
Kendric says "What about using a Conjuration/BP combonation to deliver conjured items or creatures in the same shadow at a great distance?"
Jasra would have to think about it, Kendric. Dunno.

Alain says, "alright...regarding retroactive BP. there are several of us here interested in BP for another char, who may or may not be created yet. can we work out the details of the retro-BP before we write up our alt. characters sheet?"
Jasra says "Yes, Alain. Although I do make each and every single BP candidate actually do the walk, even if it IC takes place off camera, so you have the experience of it. Getting it all approved before you even create the character is fine, though."
Jasra says "Do keep in mind that I am much more picky on people wanting to do retro-active BP than with people who are already established characters who want to learn BP. MUCH more picky."

Thaddeus says "does broken pttaern protect you from being grabbed with logurs tendrils like pattern?"
Jasra says "No."
Jasra says "It's not that powerful, sorry."
Thaddeus says "can broken pattern let people follow you?"
Jasra says "Yes, although they'd be susceptible to the same random "goofs" that you are, when shadow walking, I believe. (Yes, when shadow walking, you CAN occasionally wind up Lost In Shadow...)"

Sivazlian says "How did the Broken Patterns come about, in the first place? Were they always there? Did they arise after Martin's blood was spilt upon the primal? Is Shadow simply a bad lens to reflect things through? I think this kind of information is crucial for people who want to research BPs /independently/, or even in collaboration with Jasra &/| Brand."
Jasra says "Okay, this one is going to take a while to answer, so please, everyone be quiet. :)"
Jasra says "Broken Patterns were always there, since their flaws are the influence of chaos. Martin's blood did help to strengthen the BPs, however. There are certainly more than just 9 BPs, but they degrade in quality very fast, and any past those 9 are near certain death to deal with."
Jasra says "There are no BP reflections of Corwin's Pattern, nor are there of the Warped Pattern. One theory (unproven, untested, and un-talked about with De'alund) is that the Warped Pattern used to be a Broken Pattern, so there are actually only 8 good ones left. A possibility. There are no Broken Logruses."

Garrett says "If I wanted to deal with Rp having the BP, when could I talk about it with you?"
Jasra says "THAT's one that everyone is interested in, I'm sure. Mainly right now, since I haven't talked to you in the past, send me +mail with a brief character description, along with why you want BP. In terms of RP, I need to first tidy up a little plot I've got going on the side, and then I'll start accepting students."

Vaughn says "Okay... now, Pattern doesn't work in Amber, excepting maybe Adv.Powers (e.g.Lens). Logrus does. Now, as BPs are 'tainted by the Logrus' (see news powers B P), can BP work in Amber, or at least Adept powers?"
Jasra says "Well, I don't think you can shadow walk around in Amber, very well, which is mostly what Initiate level can do."
Jasra says "Adept powers would also be possible, just hard to use."
Jasra says "Depends where you are in Chaos. :)"

Radigan says "Several things you've said imply that the BP is a coded place, with an actual walk, presumably with interesting events wired in, as opposed to 'just handwaving'. Is this in fact the case? (Sounds like fun :)"
Jasra says "Yes, this is in fact the case."

Kendric says "If you run into trouble walking the BP, could you use apreestablished Trump contact to escape before dissolution. Trump on or off thepattern is possible, as Brand did in Courts of Chaos."
Kendall says "But would you have the concentration to maintain a contact?"
Kendall says "Brand was a Living Trump, which is a bit different. :)"
Jasra says "I don't rember the specific instance you're talking about, unfortunately."
Kendall says "He showed up in the center of Corwin's Pattern to take the Jewel."
Jasra says "If you're talking of a time after he'd been juiced up by the Fount, he wasn't *exactly* using Trump. Normal trump, I'd say no, sorry."
Kendric says "true, but Fiona in Bllod of Amber, suggested to Merlin that If he walked his father's Pattern he could trump her to the center and then project them to the primal plane of that pattern."
Jasra says "Ah, that was Fount, yes. While walking a BP, you don't exactly have the concentration to deal with Trump. And the Center of any pattern is far less annoying than while walking said pattern."
Kendric says "It was never tried though."
Jasra says "It is a good idea to carry trumps of friends on you, though, for those instances when you get tossed way out in Shadow. :)"

Kendall says "What are the odds of getting knocked around while Shadowwalking or spellcasting? And how often can you survive it without being twinkish? :)"
Jasra says "While shadowwalking, I don't know off the top of my head. I'd have to go look at the code again. It's less that the chance of a good while walking the BP, as I recall. There is no coded chance of failure with sorcery. THAT you'll have to RP yourself."
Kendall says "It's not something that happens every other time you walk, then?"
Jasra says "As for how often you can survive it without being twinkish? :) Well, that's up to the situation. If you just happen to be out shadowwalking somewhere and you get lost in shadow, if it contributes *nothing* to any on-going story (you're not rushing to get anywhere, you have no need to show up dazed and confused, etc), then I'd say it's safe to ignore that."
Jasra says "Right, exactly. It hasn't happened to me in a while. But then again, I'm real careful about shadow walking. Why walk when you can trump? :)"

You say "Ok, I wasz curious how openly it is known that Jasra is the one to talk to about BP, and in general if BP is known about to say the residents of Amber who go looking around and asking about it, and wether you take open requests sent to the Keep about it or what. (Basically some info to write a better request when I do.)"
Jasra says "It's not SO openly know that I have a sign tacked to the WEB's bulletin board. However, a few specific questions around the right crowd (the amber end of things, not the chaos end of things) should turn up enough clues that would point to Kashfa, at least, and that would in turn point straight to Jasra."
Jasra says "As for what to DO with this knowledge, anyone visiting Kashfa and asking about it would get pointed at the local sorcerors cabal group, who would kindly pass any notes along to Jasra. They also do appointments for her. :)"

Theron says "I've heard talk about BP in the WEB. I've been acting on that information, but, considering how much of it is probably just people quoting the stuff in news powers BP, even though they shouldn't ICly, how much can I consider to actually know? Considering I've already found out and acted on, ICly, the general location (Kashfa), and some of the dangers (walk the break, not the actual pattern), how can I resolve this if I shouldn't know this?"
Jasra says "About that much you should be able to find out. You probably shouldn't be able to find out anything about Adept powers."
Jasra says "Basically, the bit where Jasra describes BPs to Mandor and Merlin in the books is about as much information as you should be able to dig up, short of going to Someone Who Knows."

Miles says "Just looking over the guidlinges for the amber navy...it says mentions something about actually being a sorcery before initiation mitigates the chance for "damage to the ships on their dark shadow paths"...what exactly is meant by that?"
Mordicious says "i can answer that one"
Jasra has no clue, she isn't in the amber navy.
Jasra says "Go ahead, Mordicious."
Mordicious says "BP is rather unstable..so ships traveling by it are likely to get damaged..they want you to have Sorc so you can repair that possible damage"
Jasra says "Wait wait wait. Who said the ships are traveling via BP?"
Kendric says "wouldn't conjuration be used to create the new material to replace the damaged?"
Mordicious says "the amber navy was looking for BP people to assist in ship shadow travel.."
Jasra says "Were they."
Jasra says "Who said that? Gerard, or...?"
Mordicious says "so i was told.."
Mordicious says "it was in the requirements for amber navy in the BB posts ;-)"
Jasra laughs.
Miles says "Exa #16737..says it right there..."
Mordicious says "thanks miles"
Jasra says "Okay, thanks. I'll check up on it, and try to figure out why they WANT their ships beat all to hell."
Mordicious says "glad i could help..even though i didnt realise i was ;-)"
[NOTE FROM COMPILER : I play Rear Admiral Gisben Chantris on the MUSH, and the Royal Amber Navy does not allow people with Broken Pattern to search out and find NEW shadows paths. They are good Captains for ships navigating -already existing- shadow paths though. If you are interested in pursueing employment with the RAN after or before walking the Broken Pattern, please ICly send a letter to myself or Gerard. You can send it to the Admirality Officer in Amber. <End RAN Plug>]

Shreck says "You mentioned earlier about how if you messed up on walking the BP you could get lost in shadow...if I had a trump and could get back could I try to walk it again...?"
Jasra says "Depends on the circumstances."
Mordicious says "i have a related question...if your walking shadow...can you trump to get out if your lost?"
Shreck says "But if the circumstances allowed it I could try again (ie its not coded to only allow one pass?)"
Jasra says "If you walked the BP under the agreement of any random happening being final, then no. If you can come up with sufficiently a good reason why you should be allowed to try again, possibly. If I whole-heartedly agree with your reasoning for getting BP, I usually ignore the random-chance bit."
Shreck ahhs...
Jasra says "Yes, Mordicious, you can trump out of being lost in shadow. Do try to remember, though, that you should probably NOT be in the best of health, mental or physical, after that for a while."
Theron interjects, briefly, "Is it imposssible to just become 'unlost'?"
Jasra says "I'm not sure I know what you mean, Theron. OOC, you get @teleported to another room. You may choose to RP with that IC, or you may choose to ignore it, get out (yes, there is a way out other than just trumping or going 'home'), and continue as if notthing happening."

Mizue says "Two questions. This probably won't come into play for a while because I got this character off to a bad start and put her on hold, but... 1) what exactly is the procedure for having people walk another BP IC, and 2) Mizue wants to walk all 9 BPs and see what happens. Can anything be accomplished that way (perhaps get Adept, although I gather other Adepts didn't do that, and how would I go about doing it?"
Jasra says "If you walk another BP, its imprint simply replaces the one you previously had. You gain nothing, really. Of course, you're dealing with that random change of Bad Things Happening each time you walk it."
Jasra says "For Adept level, read news powers policy, since Adept is an Advanced level power. IC, it'd take much studying and so forth. OOC, I haven't really decided yet. :)"

Gideon says "If you wanted to try and get BP retro by walking a different BP. Do you need to specifically state where it is? Or can you just say you walked another BP."
Jasra says "In fact I'll ask you to give me an idea of where that other BP is. I'm in the process of making a list of all useable BPs. I've gotten 4 so far, definitely. (and yes, if you want to walk one of those, we can arrange that)"

Jasra rereads Mizue's questions. hang on.
Jasra says "oh, the 'what is the procedure for having people walk another BP IC'? Talk to me about it. I've gone over it a few times in this log already."

Roxann says "From what I gather after successfully walking a pattern it is imprinted in you. Can I assume you are not at any risk after you walked the pattern successfully one time?"
Jasra says "No. :)"
Jasra says "In fact, the risk doesn't really decrease any, as far as the code is concerned. IC, it should decrease a small amount, since you DO know the BP a whole lot better. There's still always the chance of failure. It's always there."
Roxann pokes mordak smiling the entire time.

Mizue says "Is there any way to get Adept _other_ than learning it from you IC?"
Jasra says "Learning it from another PC Adept. Alas, there are no others, right now."
Mizue says "So you're the only person in the entire multiverse capable of teaching it?"
Jasra says "I'm letting people get away with learning BP from NPCs as it is; I'm not sure I could get away with people learning advanced powers from NPCs."
Mizue says "Maybe you should establish that certain NPCs have it, keep a list of those NPCs, and set up a procedure to apply for it?"
Caladan nods in concert with what Jasra said.
Jasra says "I do have another person earmarked to get Adept level soon, so there will be two of us. I refuse to hand out BP and BP adept like candy, like Trump, sorry."

Hale says "Those of us who have had our applications approved earlier...will we be 'processed' soon?"
Jasra says "Uh, hopefully. :) It depends a lot on when we can connect on-line, of course."

Zachary says "I was wondering about the BP-Sorcery connection..."
Zachary says "Do I have this right:"
Jasra says "what about it?"
Zachary says "Right now, assuming I have sorcery, it works."
Jasra nods.
Zachary says "If I get BP imprint, it'll become flawed?"
Jasra says "Not quite."
Jasra says "None of this is coded, so listen carefully, since you have to RP this, and decide for yourself when and how:"
Jasra says "If you use the BP to help your sorcery (call it hanging, call it as a secondary power source), THEN your sorcery may be flawed. That's the bad side. The good side to this is that IC you should get *slightly* better effect out of your sorcery, whether in terms of the number of spells you can have hung at one time, the number you can cast without getting tired, or how much oomph you can put behind them."
Jasra says "One of the things on my To Do list is to make the "max number of spells hung" number variable, based on both endurance and whether or not you have a pattern or logrus of any type."
Zachary says "So I can power my sorcery with BP, instead of purely with endurance?"
Zachary nods. "Good idea."
Jasra says "Bingo, Alain. Remember, though, that if you do any +cmpattrs with sorcery, it's STILL working off of your base stats, and doesn't take into consideration any powers you may have. This is where you have to RP, and work it out with your opponent."
Kendric says "Under Shadow Knight book, it is noted that spells hung on the BP can be sent along the pattern tendrils, similiar to Logrus to take effect somewhere else in the same shadow"
Jasra says "It might help, if you were dead even, giving you a slight advantage. On the other hand, it might backfire on you, giving you a disadvantage!"
Alain says, "this is where Stuff comes into play. :)"
Jasra says "Yes, but I haven't decided if that holds true for the mush, Kendric. :)"
Jasra nods at Alain.

Roland says "Hmm. Perhaps if we just knew the odds that a spell would backfire, normally, and then, if we have bad stuff, have the odds center on the important spells, the frivolous ones if we have good?"
Jasra says "Up to you. It's not coded into sorcery."
Jasra says "Rule of thumb: if it makes for good story, do it!"

Tomaine says "Just to verify, To get BP you want +mail explaining why and then we can work out the IC reasons. #$#@#kbd"
Jasra says "Yep. Although I want mainly IC reasons your char would want BP. I figure I can guess most of the OOC reasons."
Jasra says "The +mail itself needn't be IC, of course."
Theron says "Do you want us to remail our requests, now that we've had the conference?"
Jasra hmms, and peers at her list.
Jasra says "If you do not have BP, and your name is NOT on this list, then +mail me (brief desc of your char and reasons for BP, etc etc): Roland Hale Conlon Siegurd Deuce Bane Jean-Paul"
Jasra says "That's the list of people I've already discussed things with, Gisben."

Shreck says "That list is only if you want to be taught...right...if you just want to try it without help then does one still need to +mail?"
Jasra hmmms, unless you have an urgent question, Gideon's will be the last. She wants to wrap it up.
Jasra says "You still need to +mail, since you still have to clear it with me OOC."

Gideon says "Do you need to be on the list if you want to get for another char retro?"
Gideon says "BP that is."
Jasra says "Yes."
Gideon nods.

[At this point Jasra offers a little bit of IC info to help out with RPing Getting BP]
Jasra says "Those of you who, by one reason or another, have figured out that Kashfa is key to a BP, and have visited there, would probably have no trouble finding the local sorcerors guild. Asking the secretary about BP will get them to show you a nice parchment letter."
Jasra says "The letter reads in typical legalese-style grammar. Typical stuff about the Broken Pattern (nothing terribly new in terms of information aside from what you already know), mentioning on the side about its dangers. Then it mentions that the Lady Jasra, once Queen of Kashfa herself, will soon be taking on a class of brave students."
Jasra says "Any requests for admission into the class should fill out the following form, and given to the secretary. (The form is the typical 'who are you', 'where do you live', 'where do you work', 'what do you know', 'what is your favorite color' etc form.)"
Jasra says "OOC, send +mail to me, with a subject of something along the lines of Class Request or something. Make it a IC letter. Make it nice and flowery, etc."
Jasra says "Add what time you can best attend out of the following: Monday 8pmET, Tuesday 8pm ET, Saturday 4pmET, Saturday 8pmET, Sunday 3pmET."
Jasra says "Payment will be decided on an individual basis, of course."